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Ask Mark Brewer and Howard Dean to Resolve MI's Convention Delegation--Fairly

by: emptywheel

Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 16:15:33 PM EDT


Jane has me fairly persuaded that some good will come out of seeing the Democratic primary process extend for two more months. Except for one thing. As a Michigander, I see how the posturing about MI's DNC delegation is exacerbating the wounds of having had our January 15 presidential primary turn into a Clusterfuck of grand scale.  More and more, I see volunteers who have been critical to our GOTV success in recent years tuning out of the party, utterly disgusted by the state and national politicians posturing about our vote.

There have been a number of solutions proposed--but they're really just more cynical attempts to game the Clusterfuck primary which, like the posturing, is only exacerbating the wounds. So yesterday, I proposed my own solution, one that accomplishes what everyone says they want, and one that has been pretty well received in the blogosphere. Today, I'm started a petition to collect the names of people who would like the MDP and the DNC to adopt this fair solution for the seemingly intractable problem of how to seat MI's delegation.

emptywheel :: Ask Mark Brewer and Howard Dean to Resolve MI's Convention Delegation--Fairly

My proposal is this: you seat the 83 delegates selected (plus alternates) on April 19 with full voting strength. That would net Hillary 11-16 delegates from having won the Clusterfuck in January. It would also ensure that the only reasonably democratic vote Michiganders got to cast this year--April 19's district caucuses--counts.

You treat the PLEOs (spots for locally elected officials) as is. This would net Hillary another 3 delegate advantage from the primary.

You split the At-Large delegates 50-50 (that is, 14 each). This would give Obama the opportunity to influence the selection of 14 of the delegates in Denver (his campaign did not vet any of the people who ran as uncommitted delegates on Saturday and at least some of the delegates selected are not solid Obama supporters). It would also partially incorporate Obama's demand that the delegation be split 50-50.

You do not seat the super-delegates, at least not as super-delegates. The campaigns are perfectly free to use their 14 At-Large delegate slots to give to the people who would otherwise be super-delegates, but they will be delegates just like any other.

This solution accomplishes everything everyone has said they want to do. It would give MI's voters--the people who will do the grunt work to get our Democratic nominee elected in the fall--a say at the Convention. It rewards Hillary, slightly, for having won the Clusterfuck. It penalizes Obama, slightly, for taking his name off the ballot in January. And it penalizes MI, 28 total delegates, for having broken DNC rules and moved its primary up.

But it focuses that punishment on those who played Chicken with the votes of MI and lost, last year, rather than punishing those who had no choice in the matter and lost their ability to cast a vote in a truly fair election. It penalizes the super-delegates, many of whom were instrumental in the decision to defy the DNC and many of whom are engaging in the worst posturing right now.

Even I don't love this solution. I consider it simply less terrible than all other solutions. But I find it far preferable to continuing to treat MI like a political football for the next two months, all at the expense of the great grassroots work MI has done in recent years.

Please sign the petition asking Michigan's Democratic Party Chair, Mark Brewer, and DNC Chair, Howard Dean, to adopt this proposal. If you live in MI, please make sure you provide your address so we can at least track those signers who are Michigan residents. And if you really like this proposed solution, please consider asking those you know in MI to sign it too. I will collect signatures over the next few days or weeks and then deliver it to Brewer and Dean.

Thanks!
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Ask Mark Brewer and Howard Dean to Resolve MI's Convention Delegation--Fairly | 38 comments
I will endorse this (4.00 / 3)
as long as you don't use a certain word you've been using in the formal petition!
Clusterfuck? (4.00 / 1)
Or pissed?

Neither is on the formal petition.

[ Parent ]
The former. (4.00 / 3)
Also, I like the fact that you recognize:

More and more, I see volunteers who have been critical to our GOTV success in recent years tuning out of the party,...

which is a point I have been observing, and harping on, since last October, but especially since the week before the primary. I would like this observation to be included in the petition.

[ Parent ]
The most important things is us (4.00 / 5)
Completely agree mem, the most important thing at this time isn't Obama v Hillary, it's the health of the Democratic movement in Michigan.  That was the main victim of the Fiasco.

PS: I still believe we have time to organize a firehouse primary or at least a "must be MDP member and can sign up at caucus" caucus.  We're still 7 weeks away from the deadline.  It would be a great deal of work, but it would be worth it for us (not to mention HRC and BHO and the national Party).

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
Not in bigger counties (4.00 / 1)
I'm afraid.

In Washtenaw we had planned on having 10 sites if we had done a caucus. That was--and is--grievously way too few. We ought to have 25. But I don't know how you find 25 places that would work for a caucus that would be available for a Saturday, plus the volunteers, in this short of order.

[ Parent ]
even a flawed primary with long lines (4.00 / 1)
is better than nothing.  As you correctly state in your post, any Plan G, is just the least worst plan at this point.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast
[ Parent ]
I don't know that is was a clusterfuck (4.00 / 3)
Things really didn't go wrong -- indeed things went as planned (except the others taking their names of the ballot, I don't think Granholm-Dingell saw that one coming).  It was something dreamed up by Team Hillary to create a firewall for HRC after a likely Iowa loss (they never liked the front four since they felt that those states were likely Obama and Edwards victories).  Team Hillary Michigan, aka the Gov, ran with it and stuck with it in spite of the obvious train-wreck it was going to become because she put her prospects for a cabinet position ahead of the interests of Michigan voters and Democrats.  Heck, when Brewer tried weakly to stand up for us she apparently threatened his job.

I prefer The Farce, which Dictionary.com defines as a"ludicrous, empty show; a mockery".  At least that's what I and others called it from back in November.  Wished you'd been around then Marcy.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
I call it a train wreck (4.00 / 3)
The only problem with that analogy is that a train has only one engineer, while a long list of people were--and are--responsible for the farce of a primary that was foisted upon us on January 15.

Please read "Out of Iraq: A Practical Plan for Withdrawal Now" by George McGovern and William R. Polk.
[ Parent ]
But a train wreck one might actual want to watch (4.00 / 1)
This was not worth a second glance.
[ Parent ]
I signed n/t (4.00 / 3)

Brewer and Dean do not decide this, Clinton and Obama make the decision ... send your proposal to their campaigns. (0.00 / 0)

Well (4.00 / 1)
The Rules committee has a say, actually.

But the only way to get the campaigns beyond their very understandable strategic intransigence on this is to force them to either admit they're doing what they're doing for political gain, or to pressure them to take a sane solution.  

[ Parent ]
You are so right ... it is the campaigns that will make the decision, The rules committee will go along with anything at this point as long as Obama and Clinton both agree. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Can we (4.00 / 2)
cross post this on other blogs?

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.

 - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Please do (4.00 / 1)
The more the merrier--especially from MI.
[ Parent ]
Signed, sealed & delivered. n/t (4.00 / 3)


Do stupid people know they are stupid?
I signed it (4.00 / 2)
and sent it to 10 people in my email address book.

Usually I don't send this type of thing [i.e., non-personal emails, including internet forwards and/or petitions] to friends, but I made an exception.

Thanks, emptywheel.

Superdelegates are "regular delegates" already (4.00 / 1)
There's nothing terribly "super" about them, and should be instead called "automatic delegates."  These spots have pretty much been allocated for MI, but its not clear if Mayor Kilpatrick will be there.

From Wikipedia:

The Democratic Party rules do not use the term "superdelegate". This article follows the most common media practice in using the term "superdelegate" to refer to unpledged delegates, who fall into two categories:

   * delegates seated based on other positions they hold, who are formally described (in Rule 9.A) as "unpledged party leader and elected official delegates"[1] (unpledged PLEO delegates); and
   * additional unpledged delegates selected by each state party (in a fixed predetermined number), who are formally described (in Rule 9.B) as "unpledged add-on delegates" and who need not hold any party or elected position before their selection as delegates.[1]

From the Denver 2008 site:

Party Leaders and Elected Official (PLEO) delegates - DNC Members, Democratic House and Senate members, Democratic governors, and former Democratic Party leaders are automatically confirmed to the state parties. In addition, these positions are considered according to the following priority: big city mayors and state-wide elected officials, state legislative leaders, state legislators, and other state, county and local elected officials and party leaders. These delegates can be chosen by a state convention, the State Party Committee, or by a committee consisting of a quorum of district-level delegates. There are both pledged and unpledged PLEO delegates.

The distinction is important, because when you push those who, by virtue of their office, ought to be PLEO delegatess into at-large delegate roles, you push out grassroots organizers, county commissioners, small-city mayors, and others who might want to go to the convention in exchange for someone who pretty much already has a free ticket there.

One of the things I love about our Party is that teachers, nurses, blue collar workers, and students all have a fairly equal shot of getting delegate slots (I saw this at the local convention in Grand Rapids), in part because party leaders no longer have to run for the position of delegate at the local-level.

Hillary speaks for me.

No, they shouldn't be called "automatic delegates" (4.00 / 2)
And Hillary Rodham Clinton shouldn't be called the "popular vote leader" either.

I'm sick to death of the Clinton campaign's never-ending wordplay.

Please read "Out of Iraq: A Practical Plan for Withdrawal Now" by George McGovern and William R. Polk.

[ Parent ]
Those "Automatic" delegates... (0.00 / 0)
Made this into a farce...they are the ones who need to be taught a lesson.


Pray for the dead, fight like hell for the living. - Mother Jones
[ Parent ]
I signed, but I did want to confirm something... (4.00 / 3)
Just for my info, what's the effective result of this plan in delegate numbers?

Here's what I have for the options:

1. Screw 'em: Stick with the rules, don't seat anyone.

Delegate results: Clinton 0, Obama 0
Superdelegate results: 0/0
Total delegate results: No gain for Clinton
Denver results: Embarassing PR due to big empty spaces on the convention floor
November results: Michigan a lot tougher to win due to cranky Clinton supporters

2. Split 'em: Seat all the delegates, but blow off the nonsense "results" from the "primary". SD's vote as they wish, however.

Pledged Delegate results: Clinton 64, Obama 64
Superdelegate results: anywhere from 28 Clinton - 28 Obama.
Total Delegate results: from -28 to +28 for Clinton
Denver results: Minor, since at least all the seats are filled.
November results: Michigan somewhat tougher to win due to cranky Clinton supporters.

3. Cut 'em: (Ferguson's plan). Seat all the delegates according to the "results", but each one only counts as 1/2 a delegate. SD's vote as they wish.

Pledged Delegate results: Clinton 36.5 (+ a couple of Uncommitteds who break her way); Obama: 27.5 (- a couple of Uncommitteds who break Clinton's way)
Superdelegate results: from -28 to +28 for Clinton
Total Delegate results: anywhere from -19 to +39 for Clinton (most likely around a dozen)
Denver results: Minor
November results: Minor--neither side is completely satisfied, but neither should be overly cranky either.

4. Soloman's Baby (Emptywheel's plan). NO SD's!!!

Pledged delegate results: Clinton 71-74, Obama 54-57 (depending on a handful of Uncommitteds)
Superdelegate results: 0/0
Total delegate results: Clinton gains 14 to 20 delegates
Denver results: Minor.
November results: Minor.

Note that Marcy's plan is actually more likely to result in Clinton gaining a few more total delegates out of the deal than Fergusons--but it also limits that gain to no more than 20 total, and, more importantly, is more fair to the Michigan electorate, since it punishes the SDs who are responsible, not the voters.

I could live with this. Wouldn't like it, but I could live with it if I had to.

Do I have all of this right?

No (4.00 / 1)
Ferguson's probably results in more for Hillary. She's got a 6 delegate lead so far in the supers, but probably is expecting almost +20.

I look on Ferguson's as an attempt to ensure the supers (which Hillary will look on as more reliable anyway), while minimizing the outcome of the most democratic elections in MI this year (notably, only in a few counties did the smoky room slate get chosen; I think a lot of people are surprised that real grassroots people got the spots on Uncommitted).

And most importantly, if we "punish" the supers, then we'll get them the STFU and not be so careless with our vote in the future.

One more point: this shifts the power slightly, to the campaigns away from the MI smoky room, which I think is also good.

[ Parent ]
I was a "smoky room" candidate (4.00 / 2)
if by that you mean the MDP Unity Slate.
And I also was a grassroots leader.  They're not mutually exclusive.

That said, I like the plan since it punishes those who should be punished.

One change though would be that the original DNC rules said that no DNC committee members from violating states would be seated.  So, no supers is ok, but I wouldn't allow any DNC Committee members from Michigan to be picked as At-Large or PLEO delegates.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
No (4.00 / 1)
They're not mutually exclusive.

Except that it's high time we move beyond the era of deciding who gets to go to the convention in such smoky rooms. Grassroots leaders will usually win a caucus vote anyway. But the smoky rooms exclude a lot of our important grassroots leaders and concentrate power in Lansing. That's the kind of thing that leads to Clusterfucks.  

[ Parent ]
And I like your PLEO idea (4.00 / 3)
I think I should have said the candidates could choose the PLEOS, but keep the 10-7 number.

But then I DEFINITELY wouldn't get invited to any more cool parties.

[ Parent ]
nah, you're effective (4.00 / 2)
and those kinds of folks, even if they are gadflys everynowandagain, still go to the chocolate fountain parties.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast
[ Parent ]
+20 for Clinton SuperDelegates?? Really? (0.00 / 0)
OK, I know Granholm and Stabenow are in her camp, and presumably Dingell...but Levin and, I believe, Brewer haven't endorsed, and I gotta figure that at least some of the congressional delegation are Obama supporters?

+20 out of 28 SD's would mean 24 for Clinton to 4 for Obama--surely it isn't THAT lopsided?

[ Parent ]
I said it wrong (0.00 / 0)
I meant to say close to 20 total, so plus 12. Thanks for calling me on it. Aside from Conyers, there are a few more in Detroit (with the Kilpatricks big question marks), and then Stupak, and one more. That's what I've heard anyway.
[ Parent ]
Question--does Brenda Lawrence count as a *Michigan* SD or an "at-large" one? (4.00 / 1)
She's an SD via the National Conference of Democratic Mayors (she's the mayor of Southfield). Is she considered one of the 28 "Michigan" SD's or is she in addition to them?
[ Parent ]
I'm pretty sure (4.00 / 1)
She's one of the 28.
[ Parent ]
No prob--thanks for the clarification. (4.00 / 1)
BTW, I went ahead and posted a heads-up about the FDL petition over at Daily Kos (hope you don't mind--I was surprised that you hadn't done so already, and you said to spread the word...)

I also posted a modified version of my "5 options" list over there. To make it a bit less confusing to follow, I used your estimate of Hillary +12 as the Michigan SD count.

[ Parent ]
Oh, for completeness' sake, I should've included option #5: (4.00 / 4)
5: Seat 'em: Hillary's dream--seat ALL 156 delegates exactly according to the "results" of the "primary", including SDs.

Pledged delegate results: Clinton 75-80, Obama 48-53 (depending on UD handful)
SD results: according to Marcy, heavily Clinton-sided (20+ for Clinton? 8 for Obama???)
Total delegate results: Clinton gains somewhere between 40-50 net delegates
Denver results: Absolute anarchy if Clinton ends up with the nomination as a result.
November results: If Clinton is the nominee as a result of this: Guaranteed McCain win; Democratic party devastated for a generation.

Needless to say, this isn't exactly a practical option.

[ Parent ]
Anarchy = Denver burns (4.00 / 1)
Seriously.  #5 would result in complete devastation of the Democratic Party as we know it.  Just take a wide walk around the blogosphere and note the degree of anger.  It would also mean that at least 15% of voters walk immediately from the party, and some of the best and brightest would follow them, amounting to another 15-30% of the Party.

While the Republican Party is a long way from reconstituting its former power, this option would devastate the Dems' ability to enact any short-term, curative legislation even with a Dem majority in House and Senate and either Repub/Dem in the White House.  

I can't help but wonder why this never occurred to those folks who were pushing so bloody hard for the early primary -- did it never phase them at all that they could lose the vote of a large minority population and many union voters along with hardcore party activists, all at one time?  Was winning worth burning down the party?

[ Parent ]
"No one could have anticipated..." (4.00 / 4)
did it never phase them at all that they could lose the vote of a large minority population and many union voters along with hardcore party activists, all at one time?

OK, I know this may sound WAY out of line, but I was instantly reminded of a few other times the "no one could have predicted" line was spun:

"No one could have imagined them taking a plane, slamming it into the Pentagon into the World Trade Center, using planes as a missile."
--Condoleezza Rice on the 9/11 attacks

"I don't think anybody anticipated the level of violence that we have encountered."
--Dick Cheney on the Iraqi insurgency

"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."
--George W. Bush on Katrina

"I think what no one could have fully appreciated is how obsessed this president was with this particular mission."
--Hillary Clinton on her AUMF vote

"No one could have imagined that the 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary would still be so strongly contested after Super Tuesday! "
--Paraphrase of excuses given by Sen. Levin, Gov. Granholm, Debbie Dingell and others to "justify" breaking the rules and causing this mess in the first place.

The point, of course, is that this was NOT the year to get cute with the DNC rules. There's too Goddamn much at stake, but they decided this was the time to play chicken with the fate of the nomination--and they lost.

It's entirely possible that George W. Bush will essentially get a third term because TPTB in the MDP decided to play games with the DNC.

[ Parent ]
MI superdelegates should stay home (4.00 / 3)
The high muckey-mucks of the party, from Governor Granholm on down, inflicted the January 15 Train Wreck Primary on us, knowing full well that the DNC would strip Michigan of its delegates if it thumbed its nose at the agreed-on primary and caucus schedule. Worse still, for months afterward they defended the Train Wreck Primary as fair.

Now they ask to be rewarded for their arrogance and incompetence by being sent to Denver to hobnob with other party mandarins? They hardly makes sense. Granholm, Senator Levin, Representative Dingell and his wife Debbie, chairman-for life Mark Brewer and the rest of the state's superdelegates should all stay home in Michigan and get to work mending fences. A public apology to voters would be an appropriate first step.

Please read "Out of Iraq: A Practical Plan for Withdrawal Now" by George McGovern and William R. Polk.

Sing it with me! (4.00 / 6)
This is the primary that never ends!  It goes on and on my friend!  Some people moved their date up early forgetting what the penalty was, now we keep on singing this forever just because....

Putting conservatives in charge of our government makes about as much sense as GM hiring a CEO who hates cars.
I couldn't agree more (4.00 / 2)
I'm a huge supporter of this solution, and I've advocated it on the past in my blog, Kicking Ass Ann Arbor.
I think that this would be a solution that would not only target the right people, by satisfy most of the Michigan electorate, which is what we need to do to get ourselves out of the clusterfuck.
Please resolve it soon ... (0.00 / 0)
I hope Michigan resolves it soon.  I don't know about the economic activity in Detroit, but I can vouch that San Francisco ... while benefitting from our number one industry of tourism to keep things going fairly well .... I am seeing more and more people on the streets panhandling for coins and food.  The heartbreakers are older ladies or the young men and women with their children in tow asking for money for food.

I think the Democrats will benefit by the economic realities we find ourselves in .... unless this squabbling allows Rush Limbaugh and John McCain to spin themselves into being the party/candidate who will be focused on the economy while the Democrats can't find their own ass, so-to-speak.

Ask Mark Brewer and Howard Dean to Resolve MI's Convention Delegation--Fairly | 38 comments

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